Have We Really Made Room for Women in Car Culture?

"Kat Callahan" (kyosuke) 07/16/2014 at 00:32 • Filed to: car culture, misogyny, women

64

100

Perhaps we've come a long way since the days of, "women are inherently bad drivers," and perhaps we've even begun to recognise that women are, indeed, quite capable of being motorheads. Yet, it seems that even in what appears to be the most accepting of spaces, there are still few women to be found. Why?

I have to be honest, I've been pretty pleased with the commenters on Jalopnik and OppositeLock. In general, you guys (and here I definitely mean men ) are pretty awesome. As one opponaut recently told me, "there are so few women, we can't afford to be misogynistic." Not that I think there was the implication that if more women were present, misogyny would be rampant, but rather was the recognition that male gearheads need to be even more careful not to alienate and marginalise what few female car enthusiasts are present.

The one Jezzie I know who loves cars and has made cars her living, MitsubiShe, isn't even really present that often. She probably lurks, but I've seen her comment like... Once. If asked to name the other women active on the Jalopnik group of Kinja blogs, I can't. I'm going to come up with a great big goose egg. And I think I know why.

Despite the genuine attitude expressed above, there are still some really misogynistic comments that appear. One out many comments, but at least one a day, and I'll toss out the further opinion that many comments while not overtly misogynistic do assume that women simply aren't even "out there." Not in the comments, and not in the wider car culture. But those are somewhat to be expected, we're still breaking down those invisible, insidious structures, but what I simply cannot abide...

There are casual, flippant comments about what cars should only be driven by women (a few days ago, it was the Honda Beat). There have definitely been comments I've called out that have hinted at the inability of women to do even the cursory level of maintenance on their cars. One a few months ago was from a dealership worker who mocked a woman for not being able to read and understand what her instrument panel lights meant, extending it to LOL WOMEN until directly confronted.

There are comments about how failure to do this or do that makes you more like a woman. Just as a very recent example I sort of got pissed at was the one in the The Ten Most Jalopnik Cars You Can Buy On A Minimum Wage Budget, regular Jalop, Buzz Killington said this about the MG MGB:

Here's a decent one for five grand. It's British, it's manual everything, parts are plentiful and cheap, and if you can't figure out how to fix this thing yourself you should get it over with and just buy yourself a bicycle and maybe a skirt.

Now, I can't say that I would relish the idea of doing any kind of car maintenance in a skirt. Truth be told, I only own two, and they're both for work (the in-office kind, not the writing-on-Gawker-Network kind), but let's be honest. That's not the point. Buzz was implying that if one can't even figure out how to fix the MGB, time to give up both one's gearhead card (get a bike) and one's man card (get a skirt). Seriously? Could we just not?

We've still got a problem, and maybe whatever room we've made isn't enough.

Image via Shutterstock.

Kat Callahan is a writer for Jezebel and currently the LGBT editor at Jezebel's LGBT+ subpage !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . She can be reached @JezebelKat on Twitter. She likes Japanese and German cars, with her loyalties being to Honda and BMW. She currently drives a JDM 2000 Honda Logo Sportic TS (GA5).

Dsscats > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:40

6

Other regular female Jalops:

Ferrero1911

$kay

Kat Callahan > Dsscats 07/16/2014 at 00:43

1

Thanks, I did know I could give a number of about three, but I couldn't remember the names. So there's three of us. If we count MitsubiShe (dubious at best), that's four, and doesn't that seem just a tad low?

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:43

4

The ones Dsscats said, plus, if I'm not mistaken, CajunGinger and Yamahog.

Kat Callahan > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 07/16/2014 at 00:44

0

I always think of CajunGinger (planeopnik) as a Jezzie, even a GTer. She's a GTIRC regular, so I didn't really think of her in oppo terms. My mistake. So, okay, now we're up to six?

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:45

5

I love it when people say "women can't drive" or "women are bad drivers", because I can then pull out Sabine Schmitz and Michele Mouton and tell them to shut the hell up.

AM3R > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:46

16

funnily enough, the dumbest car statements I've ever heard have all come from guys.

3 days after I got my license my moms new-ish van broke down and 4 guys stopped to help me. They couldn't figure out what it was. This lady pulled over and within 2 minutes figured out what it was, AND informed me that it was recalled before the letter was even mailed to us. (Honda Odyssey fuel pump).

Never underestimate anyone regardless of gender, or really anything.

Kat Callahan > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 07/16/2014 at 00:46

0

But then the response is always a sort of reverse-no-true-scotsman. "BUT THEY'RE SPECIAL." >___>

Dusty Ventures > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:47

4

I agree. A lot of progress has been made, hell I'll even say a lot of progress has been made just in the time I've been a part of the automotive community, but at the same time there is at least as much that still needs to be made, especially in the automotive world beyond our (mostly) wonderful Jalopnik/Oppo realm. They're still a few steps behind us in terms of progress. Just means we need to keep pushing for progress and improvements.

SaabStutz > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:48

5

This is one of the most thoughtful posts I've probably ever read on Oppo. Car culture, like everything, will come around eventually. It will be no easy task. I try to be as open as possible, but sometimes I'm guilty of making or laughing at a sexist joke. And while I don't think we can eliminate this completely, we can make it less of a part of everyday life.

Additionally, it seems to be men are more likely to become infatuated with cars. That's not sexist, let me explain: in my, admittedly short, lifetime, I haven't come across a single woman who has appreciated cars the same way I do. I don't think Jalopnik and these sub-blogs would have an issue with the room we've created, it just seems to me that often certain types of hobbies tend to attract a certain gender. I know car culture will become more evenly distributed among the genders, but I don't know to what extent or when.

Manuél Ferrari > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:50

3

Also one issue is that front page commenters tend to be extra crude in general to try to get laughs. They say things that offend women and they say things to offend men as well. They'll saw just about anything to try to get a chuckle or in hopes that people will think they are cool. And of course some are just trolls that don't care if people laugh or not as they get joy out of seeing people suffer.

I don't know Buzz but I have seen a lot of his comments. He might not a misogynist but just someone who will attempt stand-up humor for laughs. Or he might actually be a

misogynist. Hard to tell.

The good thing about the smaller Oppo community is that you can actually get to know people. Hard to really get to know what people are thinking if they only comment on the FP.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:50

2

One more, My friend fiat500Chick. She's not on much, but she does have authorship. Ive been bugging her to play CAH, she says she will eventually.

Dusty Ventures > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:51

6

There's also Yamahog, Shanoomanoon (probably butchered that one), Cajun Ginger, McNewbie (who is mostly a lurker these days), and at least a half dozen others I can't remember (which I'm going to blame on it being late and me being tired). Plus Stef Schrader, if you're willing to count a staff writer. But in a community of hundreds that's still way lower than it should be.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:52

1

I feel like, just like listening to death metal, cars generally attract more men than women. I would know, I love both. I have been to death metal related things and seen nothing but a sea of dudes.

Dsscats > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 07/16/2014 at 00:53

0

Is Aya a girl?

Kat Callahan > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 00:54

4

Dealership dude is an Oppo author. The instrument panel anecdote was an oppo post. Think he deleted it after being called out. And not just by me. I was happy with Oppo that day, if not with the poster.

Bandit > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:55

5

Observation: we on oppo are general much better at not being jerks than those on the FP. Also, $kay and yamahog are the only other girls (who admit to being girls) on here that post a ton that I know of. But really, what does it matter what our demographics are? Let people be interested in what they want to be interested in.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:57

9

I dont like the corrolation that riding a bicycle often makes you anyless of a gear head, if anything it makes you more of one. If you ride often you would notice that your bike would take quite a beating. I put about 30 miles on my bike a week, and I have learned to replace brake pads, realign the headset, replace & clean the chain, remove the crank and cassette/freewheel, retrue the wheels, replace tires/tubes and so on. I love driving and cars, but it is possible to like bicycling without cancelling out your love of cars

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Dsscats 07/16/2014 at 00:57

0

No idea

Bad Idea Hat > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 00:58

7

You've actually given a philosophical question for the night. If you offend a burner on a front page story, is anyone really offended?

ly2v8-Brian > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:58

7

I am not a man who is eloquent with words so I will be blunt. This is the internet, people feel empowered to say stupid shit, or the meanest most vile garbage, because the internet offers anonymity. If someone posts something dumb, ignore it. Many people are dumb assholes that are stuck in there narrow mindsets and cannot accept anything that goes beyond those preconceived notions. Don't worry about changing the mind of some moron. As you have noticed folks on this site are open and receptive for the most part.

If you are a woman that is into cars, Awesome. Then by all means post away about cars here. I welcome it. I want to see woman take an interest in cars. My mom was a big part of getting me into cars. She would take me to car shows as a little kid. She could identify what type of engine a hot rod has just by sound.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 00:58

3

I agree with what you're saying, and you bring up a great point. There is still a lot of less obvious misogynistic thinking and commenting happening on Jalopnik and Oppo. That being said, I have to wonder if some of the misogynistic comments are a symptom and not a cause. I think that a lot of people become complacent/used to the fact that there are so few women in car culture and are thus more likely to make misogynistic comments because they feel that they don't need to be as considerate due to the lack of a female presence in the car culture scene. As a man, I can tell you it sure does feel like a sausage fest at times. I believe that if there were an equal amount of men and women in car culture that there many not be as much sexism and misogyny.

The issue really is a multifaceted one. It's impossible to pin one specific cause on why there aren't as many women in car culture. There are probably a lot of women who would feel too "manly" if they were vocal and active about their passion for cars. This would be the same as a man admitting he loves to do something typically viewed as a more female interest.

Further still, and I hate to generalize and stereotype at the risk of angering/insulting others, but overall I believe most women simply aren't interested in cars the way men are. In the same way that women are stereotyped as loving to shop for clothes at the mall, a lot of men are interested in "more masculine" things like cars and sports, with not a whole lot of crossover. I'm definitely not saying crossover doesn't happen. My own sister loves baseball and football and yet she also loves to shop for new clothes and shoes, but we can't ignore the reality that many women are more concerned with what are considered "feminine" interests and that a love for cars doesn't typically isn't among those interests.

Bandit > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 00:59

3

Here here! I would argue my love of cycling (and rebuilding bikes) has upped my level of gearheadedness. I've even used cycle rebuilding skills on my car. It's all about machines making transportation easier and more fun at the end of the day.

Burrito de EJ25 > SaabStutz 07/16/2014 at 00:59

13

A male's attraction to cars isn't genetic. If any of you have daughters, please, please include them in your hobby. Fuck gender roles!

ly2v8-Brian > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:00

1

Learning to do stuff like that on a simple platform like a bike is great.

Kat Callahan > Bandit 07/16/2014 at 01:00

0

The question being posed is if our demographics are skewed. I agree with you that denographics needn't be 50/50, just thinking it might be lower than ot should be because there is a subtext which says people are not allowed to be interested in what they are interested in, to use your words.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Bandit 07/16/2014 at 01:01

1

And the exercise is unparalleled

All Motor Is Best Motor > Dsscats 07/16/2014 at 01:01

0

I don't believe so. I was confused about this for a while, but one of his/her comments recently made me sure Aya is a man. I could be totally wrong though. :S

Kat Callahan > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:02

0

It is that latter point which is how I read that. I agree with you, but is that what Buzz meant?

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:03

0

Buzz?

Kat Callahan > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:05

0

The commenter who made the bike comment.

Bandit > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:05

1

To infinity and beyond! (Sorry the Buzz? Thing was calling for a toy story reference)

Bad Idea Hat > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:06

2

Damn. This is both the exact reason I think I'm good with fixing things, and the exact reason that I have grown wary of fixing things. Enough times mutilating my bike as a kid doing stupid kid stuff, and then having to fix it when my dad laughed at me, made me learn quickly how to do minor repairs. Major repairs came on longer jaunts alone down the bike path, where I either figured out what to do or carried my bike a dozen miles home.

I could argue that this should be where kids learn the entry level wrenching abilities.

Stef Schrader > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:07

6

MitsubiShe?

I like this woman already!

derhoggz > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:07

5

I work at a racetrack and the number of blank stares I have to give out daily to idiotic sexist comments is ridiculous.

Agrajag > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:07

2

I think some of it is in how the general public perceives car enthusiasts. There are so many types of car fans but all people see are dudebro.jpg. And people don't like him.

Then you have the pressures of society during upbringing to, behave like this, and only play with those. I think it takes a strong willed person to like what they want at a young age. Doubly so for women?

I will say that Jalopnik and the Oppositelock forum that it fostered are a refreshing branch of car enthusiasm. Until this community, I never met other people who had such a wide range of automotive tastes. Like I mentioned above, there are many types of car fans, and they tend to like one thing to a such a level they are fanatical about it and immediately derisive of anything else. That person is not an inviting soul.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > All Motor Is Best Motor 07/16/2014 at 01:09

1

Aya's a guy.

Manuél Ferrari > Bad Idea Hat 07/16/2014 at 01:09

1

Haha good question :)

Also do front page authors sign in as burners and flame the manual vs. automatic wars to get clicks?

Kat Callahan > Stef Schrader 07/16/2014 at 01:10

2

http://mitsubishe.kinja.com/

Bad Idea Hat > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 01:12

1

Bandit > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:12

1

Ahh, I get what you're asking now, basically the same question that is being asked in other areas of life (education is probably anothe r big one for the skew-ness debate). I'm sure there is some of the sexism in some parts of the car community. That is changing though, my generation (young) seems a lot more tolerable of women in the auto-sphere than my parents generation. Which is good. Don't get me started on pushing women into engineering though... So many scholarships I wish I could have but can't because I'm a middle class white male. (That statement was a joke btw)

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:13

9

probably because when I type in "Women and Cars" into Google image search I still have to make sure the explicit filter is turned on.

Manuél Ferrari > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:14

2

My dad is the biggest gearhead I've ever met. And he loves to ride his bicycle. He's going to that big ride across Iowa thing this weekend that happens every year.

So I support your comment.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:17

0

I have no idea, Ive just been waiting for an opportunity to make that point. There are alot of anti cyclist oppos, one guy commented on something a while ago saying hed want to spray washer fluid on the lead cyclist of a group ride (pissed me Off)

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 01:19

1

That ride is supposed to be amazing I wish him luck and hope he has fun

tromoly > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:21

2

I think the issue you're attacking isn't so much that there isn't room, but that there either isn't an interest amongst those females who are into cars to be on Oppo/Jalopnik, or there just isn't a large amount of females who are into cars in such a regard that they would post on a blog like this.

mcseanerson > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:21

5

I'd say one problem might be some of us feel almost too comfortable on here. I made a joke on here once that I would make to those close to me and they would know I didn't mean anything by it and it was not well received here. Guys will make crude jokes with other guys because we enjoy giving each other a hard time. Unfortunately when dumb guy jokes spill out into other environments other people get hurt because it is seen as a dig at them. We're just getting to an age where old guys and young guys who still make old guy jokes are going to have to adapt and realize that even though they don't think they're being offensive they're still making others feel unwelcome and unappreciated.

No matter how crude I might be some times or how much I like to just give my buddies a hard time I never want to make someone else feel unwelcome.

Kat Callahan > tromoly 07/16/2014 at 01:27

0

I think attacking is a strong word. Discussing is probably better. I'm not saying I have all the answers here.

ly2v8-Brian > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 01:31

3

Manuél Ferrari > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 07/16/2014 at 01:32

1

Thanks!

I haven't been but he's been a few times now.

People get all whacky at that ride, lol

Conan > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:35

3

We all should remember Bertha Benz as much as we do Karl Benz.

Kat Callahan > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 07/16/2014 at 01:36

2

That was the exact issue I had finding the headline picture. I was fucking annoyed.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:37

2

Off topic: I am glad Honda punted their engines a few degrees away from the front. Same couldn't be said for the second-generation Mini Cooper S models.

Never thought a plastic faux hood scoop can turn into a hot element.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:38

2

I think there was this one girl who rode a Yamaha FZ1 on the ferries to Vashon Island and saw that the Yammer had mods - from a Yoshimura exhaust to new rear sets. "Oh, I did that." she said.

I wish I talked with her more, but I still had my Burgman at the time. :c

ly2v8-Brian > mcseanerson 07/16/2014 at 01:38

0

Its easy to misinterpret the meaning/how text would have been said. This is a cause of so many problems related to the internet.

Makoyouidiot > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 01:39

3

Funnily enough, I've only ever had guys tell me they own a Chevy or Ford or Dodge and expect me to divine exactly what year, model, and engine it has purely from that brand. Then again this is Texas and 9 times out of 10 it's a truck, but even then, what DAMN ENGINE IS IN YOUR CAR?!?!?! Auto parts is fun work.

As far as ratios go, many more women than men know what's what about their vehicle, from my experience. Admittely I see very few women in the auto parts store, but they do show. And they take the time to know what they need to, unless some dude has sent his wife on an errand without giving her enough info. Which I also hate, because then she has to call him back every time I ask a question because he was too dumb to tell her in the first place.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 02:16

1

I wish more car photographers would Hawkeye their shoots, I know plenty of women who'd love to see Jensen Button in booty shorts awkwardly squatting next to the wheel of a McLaren.

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 02:19

1

"But they're. Better. Than. You.", would be my response.

But in all seriousness, I don't think that women are necessarily worse drivers than men. I think it's partly due to the media that has exaggerated how women can be bad not just at driving, but all sorts of things.

For instance, I used to go on 9gag for the funnies. I stopped about a year ago because I had enough of the misogyny that was there all the time - so many people pointing the blame based purely on the gender of the person, or the constant degradation of women.

Men can be bad drivers too! I've got a friend who's father is hopeless at vehicles and a mother who excels at driving. She is a quick and responsible driver, he wonders why his battery went flat when he always uses the stereo with the engine off. He once came to my father asking if there was a problem driving with bald tyres!

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 07/16/2014 at 02:27

0

Or Danica

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > YSI-what can brown do for you 07/16/2014 at 02:32

1

I've noticed that too, my brother is in a death metal band. They'll support a bigger band and it'll be 200-300 dudes with a smattering of girlfriends.

The local punk gigs I go to though are about 50:50, the indie bands I'll see are 70:30 girls to guys.

All 3 gigs are filled with vegans/vegetarians which is an interesting anecdote.

Garrett Davis > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 02:57

22

Great post. Really glad you wrote this up, Kat.

I think the problem is still that most of these issues seem to stem from the vocal minority. Speaking from my personal opinion:

Most real car guys are absolutely welcoming to women in "our" world, because above all else; that's fucking cool. What guy here wouldn't want his lady to be right there along side him, handing him a wrench, or better yet, turning one herself? I spent a few years participating in various Jeep clubs and women were always more than welcome — and honestly were not an uncommon sight. Thinking back to the last trip we took, I'd say there was maybe about 1/3rd of the group being women, and these aren't just tag-a-longs with their husbands, they were either there as a family all the time, or drove their own Jeeps. These women earn serious respect in the community (which I'll touch upon at the end).

I've been out of the Jeep game for a few years now, but I really haven't seen any real change in this attitude towards women among other groups. It's always been a plus to have a women participate and actually share this joy that we have for cars. It's very refreshing, and been very consistent... except in one very important area:

Internet comments.

Here's the real issue. First of all, you have your selection of literally who ever decides to post what ever comment they deem "funny" or "witty" that day. They aren't any different than any other throwaway internet troll, yet they come to represent how we perceive the population of these comment sections as a whole. I'm sure as a writer you know better than most how easy it is to let a few hurtful pieces of criticism override a whole swath of positive comments. I submit articles to Jalopnik fairly regularly and I find myself dwelling on the negative or ill-informed commenters much more than the sometimes hundreds of complements and constructive conversations. It's just how we're wired.

With car culture, I agree that it is pretty much known as "man territory," but that's just one of many stigmas that just hasn't faded as fast as it should — very similar to the gaming world of just a few years ago. Reading through comments in Kotaku and (dare I say it) even something like YouTube shows a much, much wider acceptance in women than just a few short years ago, when any sign of femininity was pounced on and either trolled or creeped-out into oblivion. For that reason, many women (if they didn't already) began using gender neutral names and identifiers so that people would take their opinion at face value, and not as the opinion of a woman. There are most definitely many more women in these comments than are immediately identifiable.

I think this is very much the case here in the automotive industry as well, although in my many years hanging around Jalopnik, I have never really seen any true prejudice come out to someone they knew was a girl. $kaycog, Yamahog, ferrero1911, Stef Schrader, and CajunGinger are all very well known and respected commenters around here, and I have never once seen a negative comment towards them in regards to their sex (except maybe some vitriol over Cajun's "Jezzie" status). Anything I ever see that is derogatory against women is either a (fairly innocent) "women driver" joke, or something questioning another's manhood, like the example you used, but never directly to someone.

More on the example you used, knowing and respecting most of what I've seen from Buzz Killington as a commenter, I wouldn't take that the wrong way. I may be getting a little technical here, but that would be even less of an insult to a gearhead girl, but still, the people who work on their cars or take pride in driving them aren't usually the types to flaunt skirts — or at least not at the same time (as you yourself showed). You could use that same jab in any group of women as well, especially since the skirt or dress has historically been seen as a strictly womanly, and in some cases, a rather oppressive piece of clothing.

Now there's one more aspect that my ultra-rational/devil's advocate brain won't let me forget with this sort of thing, is that it's also just as sexist to make a special case for a woman in a "man's" world, albeit in not really as hurtful of a way. This is another thing we see in the gaming industry, is that women in this "man's" world are often held to a different standard, and certain things are forgiven where they absolutely would not be with a man. Unfortunately this has become the mindset even for many women in the way that the things they do or know can be "pretty good for a girl." I find myself thinking this way about a lot of things, and it simultaneously pisses me off and has me nodding my head in agreement — because that's how things are.

I sincerely wish we lived in a world where none of this is an issue, but I have to hold onto the fact that it is at least getting better all the time. We are all products of our own society, after all, and this is not something that changes quickly, even in such a progressive society as this. As for the "women are inherently bad drivers" thing, I think this is nearly as much the fault of women as it is men. Before you get angry with me for saying so, just remember that societal norms effect all genders equally (in perception). My opinion is that the only reason that the average man might be perceived as better driver than the average woman is that it is historically the man's job to do or care about driving, and even aspire to do so professionally, whereas women are told from an early age that secretary work is more their thing.

I use my mother as my prime example of someone bucking this trend. When I was a kid there was this one stretch of usually empty, two lane, twisting road that we used to take, and she would tell me she liked to drive it like she was driving a race car. She would shift between lanes depending on which was the inside line, and actually have some (safe) fun, whereas most women wouldn't even think of such a thing. Now that my mother has met the right people and come into the right resources, she has legitimately been a race car driver for the past 6-7 years (at nearly 60 years old, mind you). She races stock cars with my step-father on the weekends, and does a pretty damn decent job of it (she's second in points this season). The best part is that there are plenty of women out there with her, probably 30+ across all the classes. From spending a whole lot of time in the pits at the racetrack, I can tell you that none of this is seen as a bad thing. At all.

Sorry for the long rant here but it's something I've thought about quite a bit. I of course have the "disadvantage" (counter intuitive in a sexism debate, I know) of being a man, and therefore can't speak to what it's like to actually be a woman in this field, but luckily I have the benefit of being raised by someone who seems to be changing this trend, so who knows, that may help my credibility here (seriously, how many people get to tell their friends that their mom's a race car driver?).

I guess the whole point of what I'm trying to say here is that out here in the real world, there is more than enough room for women in this culture. I feel like we may even be approaching a turning point soon where it will become trendy for women to be into cars, similar (again) to the gaming industry recently. If nothing else, Kat, let me speak for the world of true gearheads in welcoming you wholeheartedly into this gasoline-reeking world. Please, bring friends, because the only thing that can help us grow now is diversity.

Kat Callahan > Garrett Davis 07/16/2014 at 03:05

1

This was an outstanding response and greatly appreciated.

razjm > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 03:22

5

I faithfully and thoroughly read Jalopnik and many of its related blogs on a daily basis, but I do not post. I've wanted to—someone recently chatted about Nissan Pulsars, and an NX was my first beloved car; I loved that tale about the lady and her Mustang, which she wouldn't part with until she couldn't drive; I just the other day replaced the EGR valve in my own car—but I'm very much here and very much of the female persuasion. Hello, everyone.

razjm > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 03:28

1

Oh, yes—and I did actually get into it with someone discriminating against women in Jalopnik comments once! Here's that. http://jalopnik.com/the-articles-t…

Garrett Davis > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 03:34

1

I hope I can help change your mind on what a true "gearhead" is, because I have lived nearly my entire adult life in this realm and I can tell you that the real world is much different than random internet comments represent it to be.

The sad thing is that this is representative of a whole lot more than just the automotive industry. Even something like engineering falls into this same "man's game" trap online, whereas in the actual tech industry where I work, there is easily a 4/10 ratio of women to men in my team alone. Still not 100% even, but more than most would expect.

Personal perception is a fickle beast. So much is up to subjectivity.

Kat Callahan > Garrett Davis 07/16/2014 at 03:41

1

You may have misunderstood me. I would not consider misogyny to be an aspect of a true "Gearhead." And you won't be running me off anyhow I've been into cars since I got my license at 15 years old.

Garrett Davis > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 03:51

0

Sorry, I guess I took the headline "Have We Really Made Room for Women in Car Culture?" a bit more literally than I should have.

Either way, glad to have you here as an Opponaut.

Kat Callahan > Garrett Davis 07/16/2014 at 04:00

2

You took a Gawker media headline literally? You should know better. :D

Garrett Davis > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 04:07

1

D'oh!

kanadanmajava1 > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 04:15

2

In my country the car culture is very male dominant (in where it isn't?). In gatherings there are of course women too but usually they are just tagging a long with their boyfriends/husbands. Many probably do like scene but not so much messing with cars. There are still exceptions too.

In last summer in one gathering I saw one lady in a nice dress trying to get her 50's something started and had her hands deep in the engine compartment trying to reach something. Her male traveling companions seem be more focused on their beer and weren't much helpful.

I don't think that the car culture here isn't driving women away but it seems that many of them just aren't interested in cars at all. But even for our male population cars are just an useful way for getting from place a to place b.

yamahog > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 06:46

3

I'm actually planning on posting a large piece on this while I am out on surgery, having compiled various sources and studies in addition to my own experiences.

yamahog > TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut 07/16/2014 at 06:49

3

"Oh yea? So why is our insurance still cheaper?"

Generally works pretty well too ;)

yamahog > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 07/16/2014 at 06:51

1

The Ducati MANigale shoot is the best!

http://motocorsa.com/featured/ducat…

yamahog > Garrett Davis 07/16/2014 at 06:57

1

I appreciate your response, but hoooo boy:

I have never really seen any true prejudice come out to someone they knew was a girl. $kaycog, Yamahog, ferrero1911, Stef Schrader, and CajunGinger are all very well known and respected commenters around here, and I have never once seen a negative comment towards them in regards to their sex

There are things I have stopped commenting on here because I do not appreciate receiving threats of acid attacks over simply explaining the concept of slut shaming to some asshat.

spanfucker retire bitch > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 07:17

8

The comic says Engineers, but it can be extended to just about any mechanically oriented field. It's a bit simplistic, but at the same time, quite true.

Mattbob > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 07:28

1

Nice! My sister is doing that ride! I was just out there for their Bacoon ride! Biking is awesome!

Garrett Davis > yamahog 07/16/2014 at 08:37

0

Interesting. I'm guessing (read: hoping) these instances are few and far between, then? If I have seen this sort of thing on here, I guess it's possible I just dismsssed it as being ridiculous? Not sure.

While I have you here, though, is that any part of why you stick with a gender neutral name? Or just coincidence?

zeontestpilot > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:12

1

I think its because the car culture is viewed as a "men's only club", which is far from the truth. It doesn't help that sometimes pictures of cars are accompanied by scantily dressed woman either. It may create an attitude of "oh, its a guy's thing".

Also, perhaps many girls are not introduced into the car culture? Not to mention that car culture (movies/tv/etc) as a whole doesn't really show too many gearhead girls. If they do, it's usually a ridiculously skinny girl, with tight clothing, a looker, and it's suppose to be a guy's 'perfect' girl; but not every girl needs to be like that to enjoy their car.

These are my thoughts. But I can understand why woman wouldn't want to be a part of the car culture, they are treated as unicorns if they are. Not saying oppo is like this, I didn't know $kay was a woman until el_uly told me.

Sky Blue > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:26

0

We sure have...

You had fordboy357 at "meat tornado" > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:27

2

If I'm not mistaken, $kaycog is a woman and she loves her some Ford GT's

heeltoehero > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:28

3

No, we haven't. And we won't until the men in the hobby stop flocking to and creating such a fuss over the women that do show up.

Kat Callahan > Sky Blue 07/16/2014 at 09:28

1

Proving the point exactly. Thanks.

damnthisburnershitsux > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:29

2

this looks shopped

Kat Callahan > heeltoehero 07/16/2014 at 09:31

0

So many hobbies have this problem. I am also pretty active at one major US anime convention where I work to wrangle and interpret for Japanese guests, and I see the same damn issue with cosplay and gaming.

Sethism > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:36

1

I hear ya. Have you ever seen what happens when a woman posts something on Bimmerpost's E9x forum? It's super sad.

There are more women into cars than you think, they just cut a low profile to avoid the verbal abuse and overtly-sexual comments they'll recieve in most car-enthusiast forums.

IRL, I see plenty of female gearheads.

BoneyOne > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:37

0

Almost all women I have talked to about cars only listen because I'm talking about. When they talk about cars, it's how much they hate them, if the repair man is ripping them off, etc..

I've invited my old lady to car related events, not interested. I've invited my daughter to them, not interested.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:37

0

Did anyone mention Steph Schrader (sp?)

Kat Callahan > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom 07/16/2014 at 09:40

0

Yes, and she is in the comments section herself. I was thinking of her as a staff writer, but then she appeared, and thus was counted.

PoopThrower > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:41

0

Of course we made room. Sandwiches don't just make themselves.

Tt3Sheppard > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:42

1

With car culture slowly heading to its grave (google self driving vehicles) I give open arms to any women who even wants to learn more about cars.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:43

0

Ack! Didn't see her mentioned in the previous post.. Stupid male myopia..

Kat Callahan > PoopThrower 07/16/2014 at 09:44

2

Har. Har. Har.

0/10.

uofime > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:44

0

you don't seem to understand the quote. First its a joke and second, the skirt line is saying you're a sissy, which while traditionally applied to a subset of women, in this case it is equally applicable to the subset of men who can't be bothered to pick up some simple tools and put any effort forth.

you're letting you're own sexist ideas (experiences) color your interpretation of the statement

RAGS > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:44

1

I have two children, a son and a daughter. My son (8) doesn't like cars (he LOVES tractors though) but my daughter (9) chomps at the bit to attend car shows with me. Don't know what that ultimately means, but it's kind of related.

Just wear your damn mask... > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:44

1

I can't speak for today's generation of kids, but when I was in High School the gear heads owned beaters and didn't attract much in the way of female attention. Most of the guys I hung out with, if they are married, didn't even start dating until much later in life, myself included. That being said, I've gone to great efforts to get the ladies in my life involved. I taught my wife to change the oil on her car (which she did exactly one time) and my 4-year old daughter has been helping (carrying tools and generally being around) with my old pickup renovation.

When you're with the boys and only the boys it is much easier to let slip with the dopey comments. So I think it has as much to do with lack of contact with the womens than outright misogyny.

505 - morphine not found > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:45

0

I really have no time to write about all the thoughts that come up in this issue, but just let me say one thing: the Buzz comment you mentioned was probably more inconsiderate towards men who don't have the wherewithalls to work on cars, and even considering that - was probably a joke. The type Jeremy Clarcson would have made (ie: hyperbole) but a joke non the less.

Steve Zissou > Manuél Ferrari 07/16/2014 at 09:47

1

I also love to ride my bicycle. I love to ride my bike. I love to ride my bicycle. I love to ride it where I like. Bicycle races are coming your way so forget all your duties oh yeah.

Kat Callahan > uofime 07/16/2014 at 09:47

3

Oh, I understood the quote. Even said in jest, it is problematic. For the exact reason you just specified. Those ideas you just described as inherent to the quote? Those are sexist ideas. There's a clear anti-femininity bias at work here. And you just made that pretty clear.

Nibbles > razjm 07/16/2014 at 09:47

0

Hello! You should totes post, especially about the whole wrenching thing. Because tearing things apart, fixing them and putting them back together is awesome no matter what gender you are or identify with

GV_Goat > Kat Callahan 07/16/2014 at 09:49

3

There's a fine line between saying, women suck at cars and women aren't as interested in cars as men. Can I say the latter without being a misogynist? I don't believe being patronizing and coddling is going to improve things. There is room at the table and if you can't tolerate some, occasional, comments that aren't perfectly aligned with your world view, then you need to toughen up, in my opinion.

And you left out $kaycog, not only is she a regular but she's more Jalop than the recent influx of mostly male persons that have recently joined the commentariat.

Kat Callahan > 505 - morphine not found 07/16/2014 at 09:49

2

It certainly was inconsiderate to men, but it reinforced "femininity = bad" and "femininty = inability to fix your own car." It was a joke, sure, but one with a lot of baggage.